interview(en)

Interview with Atsushi Okada of Cachet: A Japanese Startup Advancing Bitcoin Payments

カシェイ岡田さんにインタビュー
フィアット

Did you know there’s a Japanese company working to promote Bitcoin payments?

Cachet is a Japanese startup leveraging the Lightning Network to innovate in the Bitcoin payments space.
Under the mission of "Bringing Bitcoin Payments to Streets Around the World," they’re engaged in a variety of initiatives, including developing wallet apps and facilitating Bitcoin payments in brick-and-mortar stores as well as e-commerce platforms.

This article summarizes the conversation we had with Atsushi Okada, the CEO of Cachet.
It offers a glimpse into their efforts to advance Bitcoin payments—be sure to read it through to the end!

バッジャー君

You can hear the conversation between Mr. Okada and me (Minami) on the podcast linked below.
【カシェイ岡田さん】ビットコイン決済やカシェイのお話をゆるく雑談

About Cachet

カシェイ
Image credit：Cachet Official website
フィアット

Let’s start by learning more about Cachet and you, Mr. Okada!

Cachet is a Japanese startup that operates exclusively with Bitcoin.
It’s a small team of just three people, but we’re dedicated to making Bitcoin payments convenient anywhere in the world.

I personally value Bitcoin as a store of value—it’s something I genuinely love. But at the same time, I believe Bitcoin truly shines when it’s used as a payment method. For instance, when traveling abroad or shopping on international e-commerce sites, you often face issues with credit card payments being blocked. It’s such a hassle, right?

I started Cachet because I wanted to solve those problems and focus on making payments easier.

フィアット

I get that!
Just the other day, I tried shopping on an overseas site, and my credit card got blocked.

I read an article by Barri Market Research and wondered—did you face challenges with payments during your travels abroad?
reference:https://burry.co.jp/articles/okada_atsu-1/

バッジャー君

Yes, that’s part of it.

Before COVID-19, I used to pay with cash (physical banknotes) when traveling, but now I almost never use cash anymore. I strongly prefer electronic payments, but when you go abroad, you still often need paper money.

I don’t really like exchanging currencies—converting Japanese yen into foreign currencies—because you lose money to fees on both ends. I have a pile of leftover foreign currency at home, like stray dollar bills that I can’t really use or throw away.

フィアット

That makes sense!
I’ve never traveled abroad, so I hadn’t thought about leftover foreign currency before, but now it totally makes sense.

It works the other way around too, doesn’t it?
Yes, absolutely. Foreign visitors often leave Japan with leftover yen. This “dormant money,” so to speak, just sits at home unused. There’s a lot of that out there.

I believe Bitcoin could be one way to solve these issues. That’s one of the reasons I decided to start a Bitcoin-focused company.

An Art Exhibition Featuring Bitcoin Payments

フィアット

Cachet hosted an art exhibition during Bitcoin Tokyo 2024 where visitors could purchase Bitcoin-themed art using Bitcoin. I’d love to hear about that experience!
(Note: This was Cachet’s first initiative involving a physical store.)

We held the exhibition at a gallery in Ginza, and as far as I know, it was the first venue in the Ginza area to accept Bitcoin payments.

People from the art community were really curious, asking, “What is Bitcoin?” It was great to see their interest. Many people in the art world showed genuine curiosity about Bitcoin.

On the other hand, many people from the Bitcoin community also came to the exhibition. It was fascinating to see how introducing Bitcoin payments in a field with no prior connection to Bitcoin created interesting dynamics.

Can you share anything particularly memorable?

バッジャー君

Sure. More than 90% of the Bitcoin community visitors mentioned it was their first time stepping into an art gallery. I hadn’t visited many galleries myself before this.

The gallery we used is owned by someone I’ve known for a long time, so they were very supportive of the idea. Many visitors commented, “I didn’t realize galleries are so accessible!” and several of them developed a genuine interest in art.

What I found most rewarding, though, was the participation of the artists. Four artists created Bitcoin-themed art for the exhibition. They not only showed a strong interest in Bitcoin but also took the time to learn about it and incorporated Bitcoin’s philosophy into their work.

In that sense, the artists were deeply engaged and made a great effort, which I think helped spark grassroots interest in Bitcoin among a new audience.

From this event, we also demonstrated a key point: introducing Bitcoin payments can bring in new customers from entirely different demographics. By adopting Bitcoin payments, businesses can attract Bitcoin enthusiasts as potential customers, and I believe we successfully showcased that possibility.

フィアット

What were some of the challenges you encountered?

The exchange rate.
Bitcoin’s price volatility against the yen was a big concern. We debated whether to list prices exclusively in Bitcoin or to also include Japanese yen. Since this was our first attempt, and the target audience wasn’t exclusively Bitcoin enthusiasts but rather the general public visiting a typical gallery, we decided to display prices in both yen and Bitcoin.

However, instead of digital pricing, we printed and attached physical price tags next to the captions for each artwork. This meant manually handling price adjustments, which was quite a task.

For instance, if the displayed price was significantly different from the current exchange rate, we would sometimes offer discounts on the spot. During Bitcoin Tokyo 2024, Bitcoin’s price rose by about 5%, which added to the complexity. Since there were many artworks on display, we ended up eyeballing the differences and doing things like offering 10% discounts. Managing this kind of volatility effectively remains a challenge for future events.

フィアット

A 5% price fluctuation? That sounds tough!
With a week-long exhibition, even small price changes can add up. Constantly updating the prices must have been difficult.

We considered digital solutions that could adjust prices dynamically in real-time, but it didn’t align with the branding and atmosphere of the gallery. The gallery had a carefully curated design and ambiance, and digital price tags didn’t fit that aesthetic. Instead, using printed captions and price tags matched the overall style of the space. Finding a balance between maintaining the gallery’s ambiance and managing price volatility is something we’ll need to think about for the future.

That makes sense. Maintaining the atmosphere of the space is important too.

バッジャー君

We could simplify things by eliminating the yen price altogether, leaving only Bitcoin prices. If someone wanted to pay in yen, we could calculate it on the spot. Alternatively, we could display only yen prices and calculate the Bitcoin equivalent when needed.

Art × Bitcoin Talk Event

フィアット

During the gallery exhibition, there was also a talk event, right?

Yes, nearly 50 people attended.

That’s amazing!
Was it a discussion between art experts and Bitcoin experts, each sharing their perspectives on value?

バッジャー君

Exactly. The theme was something like, “What is the value of art?” and “What is the value of Bitcoin?”

While preparing for this event, I studied art and noticed some striking similarities. For example, determining the value of art is challenging—whether it’s objective or subjective, it’s hard to pin down.

It made me wonder, “What gives art its value?” And at the same time, I realized the same question applies to Bitcoin: “What makes Bitcoin valuable?” It led me to think more deeply about what value means in the first place.

フィアット

That’s fascinating.
I’ve never really thought about the value of art before, but seeing it from that perspective makes it interesting. For art enthusiasts, the concept of Bitcoin’s value might be equally unfamiliar. It sounds like an exciting exchange of ideas.

Bitcoin enthusiasts believe Bitcoin has value, but for art lovers, they might ask, “Why does it have value?” or even dismiss it as merely “a speculative tool.”
In that sense, the parallels between art and Bitcoin are intriguing. Both prompt deeper questions about what value truly means.

A Website for Buying V Prepaid Gift Cards with Bitcoin

UseBitcoin
Image credit：UseBitcoin
フィアット

I’d like to hear more about “UseBitcoin”! It’s a site where you can buy V Prepaid Gift Cards using Lightning payments, but I imagine it must have been quite challenging to make that happen.

Getting approval for something like “buying a VISA card with Bitcoin” seems like a huge hurdle.

バッジャー君

Exactly. That’s where it all started.
Whether it was even feasible was a big question. We received tremendous support from Professor Uchida at Shunan University and our legal team, which made it possible.

The site itself is a simple e-commerce platform, but there was a lot happening behind the scenes to make it work.

フィアット

I tried it for the first time recently, and it was super easy to use—I had no trouble buying!
For instance, when buying a 10,000 yen V Prepaid Gift Card, it immediately shows the amount in sats, making it very clear.
The fees don’t seem very high, do they?

It’s sold at nearly cost price.

I was almost worried—are you sure it’s okay to use it?

バッジャー君

Absolutely, please use it as much as you’d like.

The author (Minami) sells handmade goods through Bitcoin payments and uses the Bitcoin earned to purchase materials like fabric online by converting it into Japanese yen. Instead of trading on an exchange and transferring funds to a bank account, using UseBitcoin offers a much simpler solution.

フィアット

If you have things to shop for online, it’s very convenient. But I feel like not many people know about V Prepaid Gift Cards. It’s a shame if Bitcoin enthusiasts aren’t aware of this option.

That’s true. I personally use it as well.
There are similar sites overseas, but they often offer prepaid cards in USD or other currencies, not Japanese yen. Many of them don’t have formal sales agreements—they just buy cards and resell them.
In Japan, it was essential to work with the official issuer of prepaid cards, get the proper sales approval, and then offer them. The challenging part wasn’t the technology but compliance and external negotiations.

I’ve heard that using the word “Bitcoin” sometimes puts people off.

バッジャー君

Yes, that happened quite a bit. It depends on the person you’re dealing with, but some responses were harsh.

When pitching the idea, the reactions usually fell into one of three categories:
A dismissive, “We’re not interested in that kind of thing.”
A polite rejection after hearing the explanation.
Genuine interest and engagement.
It was a mix of those responses.

Cachet’s Future Plans

フィアット

I’d love to hear about what Cachet is currently working on, as much as you’re able to share.

We’ve been working on various developments recently. While I can’t go into details yet, we hope to share updates through press releases in the future.

For UseBitcoin, we’re planning to expand the product lineup. We’re currently in discussions with several companies to make this happen. Additionally, we’re thinking about whether to keep the design simple or make it more visually appealing—we’re still figuring that out.

The design of UseBitcoin was actually inspired by Bitcoin Fax, a site that allows you to send faxes using Bitcoin payments. I’ve always loved the UX of Bitcoin Fax, and UseBitcoin is a tribute to and inspired by that design.

Bitcoin FAX
Image credit：Bitcoin FAX
フィアット

That’s great—it’s so easy for me to use! No need for account registration or anything.

With UseBitcoin, you don’t need to register or provide any personal information to buy a V Prepaid Gift Card.

バッジャー君

If collecting information is necessary, we’ll do it, but if it’s not, there’s no point in asking for it. That’s my approach.

At the Ginza gallery event, an unexpected company came on board as a sponsor. Believe it or not, Asahi Breweries sponsored the event.

フィアット

Really?
That’s such an unexpected pairing—Bitcoin and Asahi Beer!

We hosted a reception party on the first day of the event, and three representatives from Asahi Breweries came to provide beer. They supported us partly because we were hosting a Bitcoin payment initiative at a Ginza gallery, which aligned with their goal of connecting with high-end audiences.

This collaboration opened up a connection with a completely different industry. It was unexpected and wasn’t part of our original plan, but it was great to meet them and see their understanding of Bitcoin as well.

フィアット

I see. This could lead to more business opportunities in various ways.

There aren’t many companies in Japan conducting large-scale Bitcoin payment initiatives, so by being a pioneer in this space, Cachet might attract more interest and opportunities.

バッジャー君

My personal mission is to create a precedent where “goods are regularly sold using Bitcoin.” One of Cachet’s goals is to build that framework, which could encourage more businesses to adopt Bitcoin payments.

フィアット

I’m curious about how UseBitcoin might evolve.

We’re thinking about ways to enhance it. One idea is allowing other people to register their own products. For instance, if various individuals could list items and have payments sent directly to their Lightning addresses, it could be really exciting. We’re exploring how to make that possible.

Would that include physical goods? Right now, it’s all digital, like V Prepaid Gift Cards, but are you considering items that require physical delivery?

バッジャー君

Yes, I’ve always wanted to include physical goods.

However, implementing anonymous shipping is tricky—it would require a robust system, and integrating with services like Yamato Transport can be challenging.
That’s why it’s taking some time, but it’s definitely not impossible. Expanding to physical goods is part of my long-term plan. Of course, we’d need to update terms of service and other policies when we start selling tangible items, but I’m planning to address that when the time comes.

About Credit Card Payments and Bitcoin Payments

フィアット

On a slightly different topic, I recently came across discussions about platforms like Melonbooks and Manga Toshokan Z having their VISA and Mastercard credit card payment options shut down. It caught my attention because a lot of Bitcoin enthusiasts on Twitter were reacting to the news.

I wonder how payment processors decide which services are acceptable and which aren’t. I’m not familiar with the specifics of these platforms, but the idea of credit card payments being shut down based solely on a payment processor's policies feels frustrating and inconvenient.

バッジャー君

If the content is clearly problematic, I think it’s fair to shut it down. But it seems like platforms tied to doujin culture and similar areas are increasingly being targeted. Losing access to services like Melonbooks or Toranoana is undoubtedly troubling for people who love that culture.

フィアット

Every time there’s news about credit card payments being blocked, people say, “Why not just introduce Bitcoin payments?” Do you think Bitcoin payments could actually be adopted by such platforms someday?

I think it’s possible. However, I believe it will take a major player stepping up as a pioneer. Once a big company adopts Bitcoin payments, others might follow suit, and we could see it gradually spreading.

フィアット

Maybe Bitcoin will gain more attention again this year or next. It would be great if some major companies show interest.

Also, I really hope cryptocurrency exchanges start supporting the Lightning Network. If one exchange implements it, others might follow, leading to greater adoption.

バッジャー君

I personally differentiate between payments and remittances in my mind. Payments often require immediacy, while remittances can take a little longer—like 10 minutes or so. After all, bank transfers are often not instant either.
In that sense, I separate the context of payments and remittances in my thoughts. Payments, in particular, don’t seem well-suited for on-chain transactions. While on-chain might be ideal for high-value transactions, using it for something like a convenience store payment would be tough.
At the same time, zero-confirmation transactions are not ideal either. That’s why Lightning seems like the best fit in such cases.

Exactly. It would be great to see more places adopt Lightning payments.

バッジャー君

Absolutely. Expanding that adoption is part of my mission.

Closing Remarks

フィアット

I also hope Bitcoin continues to grow in usage, and I’m looking forward to Cachet’s efforts in this area!

Thank you! I’ll keep working hard to meet those expectations. Cachet aims to increase the number of places where Bitcoin can be used. If anyone is interested in adopting Bitcoin payments, we’d be happy to discuss and assist in any way we can.

We’re excited to continue following your efforts to promote Bitcoin payments.

Thank you so much, Mr. Okada!

バッジャー君

Cachet Official Website
https://www.cachet.jp/
UseBitcoin
https://usebitcoin.jp/
Cachet Official Twitter (X)
https://x.com/cachet_jp
Mr. Okada’s Twitter (X)
https://x.com/okada_atsu

Tutorial Video: How to Use UseBitcoin & Charge V Prepaid Gift Cards (Created by Minami)

Sigeru Minami

Writer：Sigeru Minami

Creator of "Bitcoin-zukan.com."
Active as a handmade craftsman of Bitcoin goods.


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